Exhibit A: Belief that country heading in right direction is at all-time low - CNN.com Exhibit B: The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace - WSJ.com Hrm?
I think it's just been easier to project our feelings on the retarded poster child for government. The whole systems been pretty wonky. Not just him.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: 1) The president gets far too much credit and blame. 2) It'll be decades before we know the full impact of his presidency. History has shown that lots of unpopular presidents have ultimately been good presidents. One thing is for sure, Bush is an important president. In 2028 I'll start a thread about him so we can discuss this topic properly.
It's because the President represents what's going on during that era of 4 - 8 years. If it's going bad he gets the shit for it.
i was reading an article the other day on a similar subject about W. they were talking about how on one hand he is seen as the worst president ever (and they did the relation to truman), but on the other hand he may be looked at differently in the future if a stable form of democracy does ever happen in Iraq. I personally believe in the "worst president" view of him. I think that if Iraq works out, Obama will have more to do with it than Bush. W's had almost 8 years to fix that problem and he's really not done a whole lot besides proclaim "mission accomplished". The Clinton administration left us with a surpluss of money and now our deficit is just unimaginable. I think W wanted to try to outdo his dad instead of actually doing what was right for our country.
I think it is much easier for kids and uniformed people to just say it's George Bush's fault or Bush sucks! When in reality its much deeper than that. The president gets most of the blame because there are 100 seats in the senate and 435 in the House of Representatives and it is easier to blame one guy for everything bad that happens than 535 politicians. He did make mistakes in Iraq(not enough troops to begin with), and I still don't believe that Clinton left him with a surplus(can someone show me actual proof?), but Bush did increase the debt because obviously wars cost money, and I wasn't a fan of the amnesty for illegals immigrants shenanigans. But overall the most important thing that he did for me was make me feel a sense of safety, September 11th scared the shit out of me and my family(my aunt worked in the south tower). I can look at my life right now and say it could be alot worse, I have a home to live in, I have a car, I have a job, I'm getting student loans to pay for my college education, my family is by no means rich but we work hard for every penny. Overall it could be better but I have nothing to really complain about that happened in Bush's 8 years.
Word. The congress has been controlled by the Democrats for how long now? They basically were rewarded in this election for bad behavior, and Bush and friends took all the blame.
the last time the country was even close to being debt free was during Jackson's presidency in 1835 he brought the debt down to $33,733.05. Clinton had a budget surplus of $230 billion but we still had $5.7 trillion in debt. President Clinton announces another record budget surplus - September 27, 2000
Considering how little Bush used the veto and how his administration pushed for some of the biggest failures ever (iraq war or more accurately the war on terror), considering how the appointments he made to positions that made critical decisions and directly affected us the last eight years, I would say that without a doubt he is at fault for at least a minimum of 50% of the shit we are in. Get the fuck out of here with your murdoch owned wall street journal piece of crap artical. You guys are tools! Yeah congress has had a lot to do with the way the country has been run the last eight years but it's the presidents job to keep them in check!!! A failure to do that is... wait for it... a FAILURE to do his job!
I see, so all the affects of this bad economy are the result of two years worth of actions by the dems? The subprime mess was started two years ago by deciscions made by the dems? I'm curious MSP, is there any thing you do blame bush for?
Nobody would have expected you to say anything else. You've become probably the single biggest liberal bunghole around here these days. Which would be OK if your posts were substantive (aka Evanar). Take your remarks about Iraq and the war on terror being the "biggest failures ever". Would you care to quantify or back those statements with anything factual? It's all subjective. Iraq is on it's way to being a stable government and our nation hasn't been attacked since 9-11. From where I'm standing those are successes, albeit ones were big mistakes were made. Couldn't you mellow out and be just a little bit moderate? I just feel like everybody needs a tetnus shot every time you post. EDIT: Of course, but only a fool would think he deserves all of it.
So us and Iraq are back to where we were before the war? Nice. I'd be happy to post links and back up my claim when I have more time, I figured though that since you have been around for the last eight years you would be well aware of his failings. I guess that makes you my counterpart I agree but I've never seen you put any blame on him.
well if you're going to argue about it, the dow hit its highest peak ever right in 2007, and the economy was rather robust the whole time bush was in office... (i personally think the economy from a macro view is influenced relatively little by the current presidents and their policies. Maybe 2-4 election cycles down when their policies can really start to show effects) I think bush's biggest fuckup was not surrounding himself with good people. The administration as a whole is much worse than bush himself. also, i think americans are whiners and love to point fingers. our (I'm 22) generation especially. we're called the fucking entitled generation a lot. (google it and look at all the damn results.) Kids don't know how to bust ass for anything, and expect it to be handed to them on a silver platter. Are you aware how much safer it has gotten over there (granted afghanistan is shit now...)? I have buddies over there. One just came back from being stationed in fallujah. the city that was a hell hole most of the war. he came under fire less than 20 times while doing _daily_ patrols over the course of 8 months. This is compared to back right after the war started when the place was insane. it is a lot safer over there. i think obama will definately get more credit for it since it appears he will be ending it, but i don't think he will have much to do with it besides that. (I'm glad we're getting out of there, but obama is not their savior (nor is he america's.) The hard work is already done, it is just getting dragged out at this point. this year is on track to by far be the lowest casualty count: iCasualties: Iraq Coalition Casualty Count ) EDIT: wait, wtf? What the fuck has he done? Gone off about more 'yes, we can', appointed the dude as his chief of staff, and setup change.gov . am i missing something?
Ultimately it will be a lot better than before. The only thing I fault Bush for was fucking up and making it take a lot longer. He picked and trusted some bullshit advisers (in this case, Rumsfeld) Like I said, it's subjective. Even the political pundits and scholars can't agree on the real impact of his presidency. It's just too soon to say. You, just like a lot of people have got caught up in this anti-Bush emotions and at least in your case, have completely lost objectivity. I've voted for a Democrat president twice. How many Republicans have you voted for? Your counterpart here would more likely be ATIzed or CHE. (EDIT: Although in hindsight, they're probably more objective.)
You think Iraq is better off now than before Saddam? Ask some of the children that have lost their families. Ask the people who have no power and water. More segregation and ethnic cleansing has been going on. The housing boom started in 2003 and started to crash in 2007.
No, I said "Ultimately it will be a lot better than before". And let's not forget who killed those children's families. It wasn't US soldiers or George W. Bush. They killed their own.
Very true, it is too early too tell and I am sure many people will analyze his presidency in the years to come. Regardless, for me the Bush administration has not-supported many key issues that I find important in life and therefore I am glad to see him gone. Good riddance. - Who knows if Iraq will end up being in a good place in the long run... for now it will remain broken and completely fucked up. I am sure they lost a lot of important parts of their past, had families devastated, and their country will be changed from it once was. I don't exactly know what a better country will be for them... Christianity and Western culture, U.S. military bases and the changing of hands of oil rights... probably not.
presidents are just scapegoats for ther industrial and military industrial complexes. Congress doesn't call the shots either.
While I won't go so far as "worst President ever", which may go to Herbert Hoover, I do think he's not being unfairly critisized. He managed to fritter away a fantastic opportunity to lead the world after 9-11, by shoving us all into Iraq willy-nilly before finishing the job in Afghanistan, and dragging all the world with us, kicking and screaming, and basically ruining our leadership role in the world. This after having rebuffed the entire world with his unilateral pulling out of several treaties such as the anti-ballistic-missile treaty. Indeed, his unilateralism in all sorts of foreign policy decisions, as well as his attempts to turn the Presidency into an Emperorship by simply ignoring laws at his convenience, make me put him at the top of the list of "Bad President." For the economy, I point the finger a little at every single administration from Reagan onward. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter. More blame goes to all Congresses from Gingrich on. Deregulation run amok, thanks to the influence of lobbying from financial institutions (such as Enron, Fannie, and Freddie). The big financial institutions I blame along with Congress. I don't think one can really tell where one leaves off and the other starts, nowadays.
And who fucked up Iraq? We toppled the government and Army within days. The dead babies and ruin was caused by Islamic extremists, aka "insurgents". You hippies always manage to forget that part.
We were high! Give us a break. Blah, the extremists and insurgent wouldn't be blowing people up if it wasn't for our interference in their country. We could go on all day... Our country fucked their country. The whole situation is just complete bullshit and you can look at it in many ways...
Bush fucked up, but alot of people seem to have looked past the fact that we haven't been attacked since 9/11(somebody said this I think?). They also look past the fact that Bush has been decent to the military. I could post a few stories about how good of a job Clinton did with that, quoted from people who were in the military at that time.
And again, the lead up to the war is completely washed over and forgotten. Years of UN sanctions, no-fly zones, the Iraqi military shooting at NATO planes, the worldwide belief that they had chemical and biological weapons... Oh, and on a side note they invaded Kuwait. Yes, we interfered in their country without any provocation at all... :roll:
here's a bit of a clue: "events and outcomes are going according to plan". I know a smokescreen when I see one. anybody wanna see how deep the rabbit hole goes?
