Half the links are from Lou Dobbs transcripts with nothing to back them up or from Rense.com. The cash for clunkers thing only covers gasoline not improved greenhouse emissions or that it will (hopefully) help stimulate the fucked up auto industry. Not saying it's been successful or not but that part was just ignored entirely. Nice copy/paste job though. Oh and here's factcheck going over the entire second half of your post point by point. Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org
That's the kind of misinformation making the rounds, though, and most people are probably as lazy as ivwshane (J/K, I know it was just this time), which is why they can be easily manipulated to believe and spout off all their nonsense.
So you're saying the government is totally capable of getting a return on the stimulus and the medical reform. And the average american is going to benefit greatly and all will live hapily ever after? That fact check didn't seem to outright falsify anything, it just mainly stated alot was unverifyable. Exagerated maybe but why is an ER full of non-citizens getting free medical? A slant? Sure. Everything has a slant, pay attention you'll see it. The meer fact that tax dollars are benefiting those who do not contribute at all, is what the gripe is. Does anyone, for even a minute, think any of that is going to change in the name of "health care reform"?
It can get a return from the stimulus, since folks with jobs pay taxes and spend money, which saves other jobs that also pay taxes... (along the same idea as the fractional reserve system; a fractional paycheck system?) From medical reform however, not so much. Of course we're not going to get a return on that even if we do nothing. Let's just say, despite all the nay-saying, reform won't make the costs worse for us, so much as it will just shift them around. Sure it won't be all "hunky-dory, everything's wonderful", but it won't be quite the disaster either. My only problem with it, is that we can't pay for it right now. If they can crack that problem without resorting to funny math (which I doubt), then I wouldn't be so doubtful about the idea...
I don't know if you are responding to me but if you are where did I say anything even close to that? If you are going to post a bunch of links that are unverified or exaggerated then don't be surprised when people call you out on it. I've never said illegal immigration wasn't a problem. I live in California and have family members employed in the CA school system I know it's a problem. My problem with your post is that you just pasted some email you received without even questioning its content. It's just irresponsible is all I'm saying.
So, in a way, you didn't need verification. How long does a bull have to stand inside a glass shop, before people admit there's a bull standing in a shop full of fragiles? (analogy) I used a well known email set to dramatize a point. Do you or anyone have the time to hunt down the verifiable info and link them? Especially info on a problem everyone admits exists? We'll have fines for not buying into a health plan on top of the other travesties we already bear. just as goofus said: we cannot pay for the incompetance we already have and now there's going to be more. A verifiable link? Federal deficit hits $1.38 trillion through August - Business- msnbc.com Irresponsible is when I do take time to link a fuckton of stuff as verification and nobody bothers to check out the verifiable content. That's irresponsible on my part, because it has proven time and again to be a big waste of the limited amount of time I have. So, when it actually serves a purpose, I'll invest the time to post up some verifiable info. Until then, chain emails is all that's warranted.
I totally don't get what point you are trying to make. I'm usually right there with you but this time I'm totally lost!
The point is: the government has fucked up everything it has gotten it's hands on and doesn't give us our tax dollars worth now. Are we going to just bend over and let the ass raping turn us into cowering dweebs? I probably check out more shit that happens in congress than anyone else.....nobody seems to be interested. But throw a cheesy chain email up and that gets some attention.....what does that say about what people deem important. (and this isn't addressed at anyone in particular) PS: besides, it's rather dull around here lately and I felt like stirring up some shit .
Where did I say that? I clearly stated that it was a problem so I'm not sure if you are even responding to me? An email that is well known to contain inaccuracies. And why dramatize it? You don't think the actual facts are enough to prove your point? Why bend the truth? You are the one posting them so why would I have to do your research for you? Hell I did more research on your email by posting the factcheck link than you did. I'm specifically talking about what you posted in the chain email or is this directed at someone else? Well you can certainly keep posting these chain emails all you like but like I said earlier don't be surprised when people call you out on them. I can't make you post factual information but I can correct you if you are wrong. That is perfectly fair of me.
I can be screwed by government or I can be screwed by big insurance. I'd rather it be by government which is more transparent and easier to out corruption. But if you have a third option let me know.
Third option: (and probably the best/cheapest) Stop all corporate lobbying and influence in our capitol!! I'd be willing to bet most political and economic problems would go away if that were to happen. Forth option:healthy living devoid of a lazy lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, lazy and kicked back are two different things. Fifth option: get involved. it would do much more good to call bullshit on our representatives and elected officials than get on my case about what I post on an internet forum.
Lobbying is guaranteed under the constitution so that, unfortunately isn't going any where. I'm working on the forth option but it's hard trying to find the time to do healthy activities. For the fifth option , I try to keep myself informed and I vote for those that are least corrupt. Posted via Mobile Device
On a related note, just got a call from my buddy at the DC Tea Party. He says it's massive. I guess they're now estimating AT LEAST a million people, but who knows. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson said the same thing for the "Thousand Man March" that they put together. :roll:
Fucking hypocrites! The last 8 years were considerably worse than the previous 8 years before that and yet not one fucking peep from these people! Posted via Mobile Device
i know your world is black and white, but a lot of teh people doing this shit are people who did in fact vote for obama. there are a lot of people who want major healthcare reform, but there are just as many who are happy with their current care and really dont want a public option. Just because people voted for a candidate doesn't mean they endorse all his ideas (granted, the tea parties are still stupid and the people should be bombed for being hippies)
Whether they voted for Obama is irrelevant. My point was that they (the people that are marching now) said nothing and did nothing during the past 8 years.
Well, the assumption is that they had an issue with what occured over the last 8 years and didn't act. In reality the guy they voted for enacted policies that reflected their interests and values. And now the the new guy isn't, and so they're protesting. REALLY protesting. It's arrogant to call them all stupid just because they have a different opinion and world view than you. And pretty sad for the liberals if you think about it. Bush illegally invaded Iraq, regularly wiped his ass with the Constitution, eroded our civil liberties, etc. And you homos never pulled off anything close to this in terms of protest. What does it take to get you dirty hippies out into the street en masse?
I never called them stupid, I called them hypocrites which you just reaffirmed. They are protesting higher taxes (who's taxes have gone up? mine haven't) and wasteful government spending (where is that handy graph you have MSP that shows the dramatic raise in government spending when Bush was in office?). People are entitled to their views and I want different opinions to be brought up but it makes it really hard to believe anything anyone says when they are being hypocrites.
Although I agree with your statement, I think it's even more simple than that, MSP; they're pissed because the president is a Democrat. And black. It wouldn't matter if Obama was a clone of Bush in regards to his policies, the fact that he's a black Democrat is really the issue. In that sense, ivwshane is right.
EDIT: sorry the quotes follow no logical form, i did a lot of editing/cutting&pasting here What the hell are you basing that off of? So the tea parties are just one big KKK rally? That seems to be stretching it a bit. At worst, they are in fact a bunch of hypocritical republicans/corporate-funded-grassy-whatevers, but I don't think this is some bigass (anti)race rally ? So the two are mutually exclusive? You are saying there is no one out there who disliked Bush and Obama? This coming from the guy who hates Glenn Beck because of how he operates but endorses a website doing the same thing They're protesting raising taxes, not current taxes. And the spending thing is true, but it comes back to the fact that obama spent a whole bunch at once, rather than over time (the whole frog sitting in boiling water or whatever it was). Yes, that still means it is stupid, but I do understand the thought process
Well, yeah. You didn't call them stupid per se. I was responding to several people actually. Anyway, taxes are going to go up folks. And in fact they already have. The energy bill for example. The massive amount of spending has got to be paid for somehow, and in the absence of cuts elsewhere the only way to fund this bullshit is with higher taxes. The people protesting just aren't stupid enough to sit around and wait for it to happen before they get pissed about it.
