How ironic that a black man has destroyed Obama...

Yes we opened a can of worms. It was a foregone conclusion throughout preceding administrations that there was going to be a political quagmire if any action was initiated in any Middle Easter country. IMO: The play had to be made before China did it. That's right, it's about oil. Make a mess over there? It made a mess right here too. Should we fix every single brick that got knocked out of place? I think that depends on how much you are willing to pay to have our incompetent guv do it. If you can afford it, could I imoplore you to pay my share, because I just plain cannot afford the price hikes and crap that came with this shit we got ourselves into. I believe it's alot harder to deny that this whole debackle is nothing more thatn a play for the oil. Wehether it be by getting a physical foothold in the region or by actually recieving some of Irqi oil, it's about those "record proffits" that the oil corporations are reporting while we get to look forward to 5 dollar a gallon fuel this summer. I may still have to toss that coin when it comes time to vote, but I don't look forward to any of the "change" that any of those clowns are touting.

Fail at misinterpretation? You guys are getting a little too aggressive/jumpy here. Oh, and we'll throw spelling in the mix while we're being assholes (n-e-w) rayer: :roll:

I wasn't arguing about him filing using it. He is claiming to want to get rid of it though. Overall I think its a bad thing since it screws over a lot of middle class people, so I'm fine with getting rid of it totally (I doubt it will get elevated because that would be screwing the rich too much). In this case I'd be willing to bet it served its purpose.

Ugh, lifted from his webpage. I heard it originally on CNN a week or so ago (mmmm robin meade)

Regarding him paying the AMT?

Tax breaks for corporations that are making a record profit? Tax breaks so they can still pay ceo outrageous sums of money despite poor performance?

God forbid we give tax breaks to the people that actually buy things. Do you honestly believe tax breaks or subsidies for corporations will mean more research and more jobs? I have yet to see any evidence of that! If such things were true then a plan like the gas tax relief, McCain and Clinton are proposing might actually be a good thing.

The fact is, the number one goal of any business is profit at the largest possible margin!

I have no delusions that either dems will magically fix everything, what I do believe is that one of them wont be continuing the complete nonsense that is our government. You can begin to change things without taking the first step.
Either way I'd rather not have a continuation of what the past 8 years has brought us.

I bring him up because he is one of the three options we have for president (likely options that is). I bring him up as a comparison. And you might not have brought McCain into the conversation but others did.

Being lumped together with the rest of the country is not necessarily a good thing, besides only 30% of them still feel good about their choice.

It's not about winning, it's about choosing the best candidate and I have yet to here any good reasons why anyone would vote for Bush, be it for the first term or the second.

Elections have become "not a choice", but more like a lack of options.

Are you even reading, or just shooting from the hip at this point?

Once you become a sprawling behemoth like Walmart, Exxon, etc., profits come naturally. It this wasn't the case, we wouldn't see corporations doing such "selfless" things as opening new plants, buying up other companies, etc.

Ooops. I did, just with a horribly incorrect sentence:

now. To change taxes.

That made no fucking sense...

Redux:
He wants to increase the minimum voting percentage in congress to change tax laws. That sucks because we're going to have a Dem controlled congress, blah blah blah

Oh yay, let's elect more democrats who are going to do such brilliant things as give us singular rebates which will go to stimulate our dead economy by ... paying off debt.

Taxes are not going to end up going down in any way with a Democrat president and congress. Don't kid yourself. Corp tax cuts may not be as peachy as cuts for you and me, but its still going to help. Like it or not, corporations doing better (looked at stock levels lately?) means a better economy, which does benefit individuals. Better jobs, pay and lower price levels.

Well duh, it's not a popularity contest or about winning. I was just saying that there were a lot of people who voted for Bush for reasons that you don't agree with or understand. Doesn't make them wrong and you smarter necessarily. For example he has successfully carried out at least one function for which he earned my vote - to appoint conservative supreme court judges. To me that's a far more powerful branch of government than the executive.

You are kidding yourself with this one.

This is not a democrat versus republican debate, they both suck and that's part of the problem. I don't want a continuation of what we already have, I don't want someone who lacks foresight when making decisions or sticks to party line because that's where their loyalty lies.

I was trying to illustrate this point by bringing up the fact that I liked McCain in 2000 because that's what he brought, independent thinking, unfortunately thats not the case now and my options are pretty slim.

If this current congress can't get it's act together I'll do what I did last election and vote the incumbents out (actually I've already decided I will be doing that, Pelosi has really disappointed me as we as boxer).

I'm bored with your bullshit rhetoric like this. I'm tapping out on this argument. Its not even worth the effort. :roll:

Throwing out non sequiturs like the WTO and vietnam (okay, maybe Vietnam is related on some tangent, but not how we've been discussing iraq) and now this isn't really lending credence to your argument.

When was this "independent thinking"? I ask because I honestly don't know. People throw around the stupid "maverick" word around, just because that is what they have heard before.

I read or heard somewhere, and I'm not sure the time scale of this, it was probably since Bush has been in office, that his votes have been in line with Bush 95% of the time.





I have to say though, I'm so tired of politics right now. There is a reason I've avoided this thread for the most part.... *sigh*

I'm sorry you can't follow it