Watching all of the pro-democratic revolution sweeping over the Middle East and Africa, the though occurred to me: isn't this exactly what the Bush administration said would happen once democracy was established in Iraq?
What is going to happen, is that we're going to see profiteering by the oil corps. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41703989/ns/business-oil_and_energy/ Get ready for 4 buck/gal fuel again. They're nervous about the unrest, I'm nervous about a huge assed price increase. Does our collective nervousness cancel each other out?
I really hope you aren't implying that Bush was right and his, "Iraq has wmd so we must bring them democracy" war call was the right thing to do. This has nothing to do with Bush or Iraq but rather the age of the internet. Educated people are a danger to those in power, the middle east is becoming educated
I don't have any answers, just saying that what's happening right now sounds very similar to how the war was sold after they gave up on that whole WMD thing.
My buddy Kyle preemptively sold his F-150. He bought another Ford sadly (2011 Edge), but I figure what he's going to save on gas will pay for quite a few engine rebuilds and tow jobs.
Wonder what it's gonna be like. 2011 is gonna be interesting. My car gets decent mileage but I'm itching for something new. I wonder if it will make it
Yes, but the reasoning behind that was once democracy flourished in Iraq, then other Arab nations would look to Iraq as an example. Instead what happened was some guy in Tunisia was so desperate that he lit himself on fire. That galvanized a country, which in turn galvanized the region. Tunisia is what got the ball rolling here, not Iraq. Trying to give the Bush administration credit for what is happening in the middle east right now is overly jingoistic. The fact that people actually are crediting the war in Iraq with triggering the recent events simply reveals our national arrogance, and is indicative of why we're quickly on the road to irrelevance. Edit: A bit less bitchy tone.
This one belongs to Facebook and Twitter, pure and simple! It's the internet that allowed the formation of the protests in Egypt and Tunisia, and some unique circumstances that allowed them to succeed. Also, remember Iran, which had a Secular/Clerical alliance, and started a "Democracy", and remember how that turned out. With Egypt, things are still very much up in the air. In point of fact, we've been propping up these strongmen so we could prosecute our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. With Mubaric, we had traversal rights for our nuclear-powered Navy vessels, through the Suez canal, and in Bahrain, we have a base for our 5th Fleet. We've supported strongmen, because we don't want what an Arabic anti-American anti-Israel Democracy would bring to the region. Oh, and in case this post was insufficiently venomous, here!
Yes, and don't think for a minute that the use of the internet wasn't noticed by those with access to the kill switch.
But isn't it possible that the huge US military and civilian contractor presence in the region, the mingling of cultures that has occurred since the two gulf wars, the huge amount of money... Couldn't all of this have influenced what's going on? And just the removal of Saddam as the regional boogey man, couldn't that have had an impact on things? I'm just saying that it's possible that 20 years or so from now that historians might look back at the Iraq invasion as the catalyst.
But to circle back to MSP's point, the Bush administration also pushed (heavily) for democratic reforms in Egypt and to loosen the grip of Mubarak's govt. There were a few other pro-"democracy-for-arabs" actions that took place under his administration (versus Obama's limited "yay iran revolution, oh wait its over"). I don't think its the cause of all this (and iraq definately is not) but I am not discounting it helping some. Also curious if that will be taken into consideration at all by new governments. Probably not considering how pissed they are about everything else we have done
The chineese think otherwise: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011...110222?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=76 Here goes the oil prices, right on que. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41717269/ns/us_news/
Correction: He TALKED about it, while in action he supported the strongmen who let him have bases and access-rights in return for "financial aid". The root cause for this has nothing to do with Bush. Rather, Ben Bernanke's flooding the market with dollars (which is causing global inflation pressures), along with the freakish weather this year in 2010 which ruined crop yields around the world, have conspired together to increase food prices globally, and are among the actual root causes of this wave of protests, as poor folks who don't have money, and see the price for their food skyrocket, watch their leaders excesses and corruption, and get really really ANGRY, enough so to overrule fear of reprisal. The intellectuals organize and the masses provide the energy, just like Pre-Revolutionary France. The parallels to the French Revolution are actually quite striking, and this is why I'm worried about how Egypt's transformation will finally turn out. How do you say Robespierre in Arabic? Edit: Soon you'll be able to swim in Tripoli, because your feet won't touch bottom in that sea of blood... Kaddafi could give Caligula lessons in how to be insane...
I wish it was that, the cheapest round here is £1.279 per litre which is about $7.83 / US Gallon Diesel is worse still. Another tax increase planned for April. Oh, and the more oil goes up, the more tax does.
To be honest I don't mind higher gas prices so long as that means we are investing heavily into alternative energy and alternative energy infrastructure.
I rather doubt it, because the culture clash is so bad, and the folks the contractors meet tend to be supporters of the current regime (and their jobs). Every story I've read, from those who worked in the middle-east talked about how Sunni Arab culture would drive them up a wall. All Westerner workers tend to be somewhat isolated from the surrounding culture, in a sort of self segregation, sticking to regions where they can be themselves without running into problems with Sharia law, so the intermixing would have negligible effects for the most part. The "huge amount of money" mostly went to the strongmen and their supporters, and most of the rest came right back home as "corporate welfare" to US companies with contracts in the Middle East. Actually, you may have a point here, since all that money being abused and wasted by the top of the regime, while their people are feeling the financial pinch, could well be considered a catalyst! I just don't think it's the sort of catalyst you meant...
I see it as quite the opposite and more damaging to the Bush/Iraq War. Here we are, 10 years later, throwing billions of dollars worth of bombs to "spread democracy" into Iraq and then these poor people with no money spread democracy with nothing more than a shitty internet connection to TWO countries with some more to follow. That's like you trying to open a stubborn jar of pickles with some massive, expensive machinery, and then the homeless kid from down the street just walks by and twists the cap off w/o breaking a sweat. If anything, we should feel more foolish and embarrassed than accomplished.
We're about to peak oil right now if we haven't already crossed that line. The price will hit ten bucks a gallon and then we may see some actual resolve. By that time the insane profits will have already positioned oil corps for the new form of fuel/energy to take the place of crude products. we'll just end up trading one addiction for another and be paying the same people for a different fix. There's a lot of power and cash to be made off of the way it's all running right now.
I am in favor of gas going up to $4-5 gallon to push innovation and reform. I think a lot of people would find public transportation to be not so bad if they were forced to take it. A lot of the cities that have a reputation for good public transit suck ass to drive around in. Make that the case in more cities and maybe the same reputation will develop. We have a great bus system in Austin, but you can drive everywhere, so people say it sucks ass Might want to take that correction back... http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...h_program_helped_lay_the_groundwork_in_egypt/ and I said right in my post: go go reading a whole post before hammering "reply"
It's the butterfly effect, you can't discount the influence of such a mammoth regional event no matter how much you might dislike the folks who orchestrated it. It's like saying the Beatles didn't influence the music you listen to because it's a different genre. It's worthy of discussion anyway.
Interesting. Ill give Bush some credit but I'd have to see some more evidence on the effect. I wonder what foreign groups our influencing our democracy?
We are our own worse influence it seems. Tex touched on it about the public transit. America has gotten soft. A few years of hard living may sober people up and get them to grow some balls. As I've said before: I worry a lot more about what may be done by a despirate government to keep order than what desparate citizens may do. What came down in Libia......don't ever think it can't happen here, it already has back in the early 70's at Kent State and other demonstration sites. Police and the US national guard did indeed fire upon peacefull protesters excercising their rights garanteed by the bill of rights. [video=youtube;-OmZvyNrzAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OmZvyNrzAs[/video] [video=youtube;0SwMONY320c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SwMONY320c[/video]
