[bbsmitz]

Originally Posted by SoulAssassin

Two points:

a) Propaganda - Remember the start of Iraq in 2003? You'd hear an orphanage got hit but the US would state they didn't...just let it be verified before calling the IDF murderers of civilians (intentionally).

b) Israel has already dropped leaflets and been heard over bullhorns telling civilians to leave areas that would be struck. Didn't leave after being told to do so? Whoops

If a terorrist organization blew up all the bridges leading to Manhatten, told everyone to get out, and then 3 hours later started setting off bombs throughout the island, by your reasoning, its would the be the civilians fault that they were killed.

Telling civilians that you are going to bomb an area in which they live, and then claiming that exonerates you of the guilt for their deaths is rediculous. The onus of ensuring that civlians are not killed is ultimately upon the one who controls the weapons.

As for that article being propoganda, ironically, that's exactly what that article is concerned with. But as for the point you are making, claiming that we should give Israel the benefit of doubt will only result in mounting civilian casualties. Let it be verified? Verified by whom?

[SoulAssassin]

Who said 3 hours?

The IDF has routinely dropped leaflets over the past week warning civilians to evacuate the area.

From July 18th:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

Hindsight is 20/20, the truth always comes out sooner or later; to judge in the present is an awful way to view these conflicts. Hell Abraham Lincoln and George Washington made some of the worst military decisions in this country's history, yet they're considered two of our greatest presidents.

[MSP]

It should be noted that the residents of Manhattan are not housing, transporting, feeding, or otherwise supporting a terrorist militia constantly firing missiles into New Jersey. I get what you were saying, but the comparison is pretty flawed.

[Electric_Head]

200+ civilians? That ain't shit, look at the carpet bombings of WWII and the 2 nukes we dropped on Japan. Civilian buildings are going to get blown up, atleast they get a few hours warning in modern warfare instead of just seeing a flash out the window and then BANG.

War is hell, it allways has been even back in BC times, their ain't no way around it.

I forget who this quote is from, but, "Eventually we're all going to either die together, or we're going to have to learn how to live together."

[ShabazKillaX]

What I find funny is the statements from Hezbollah like "we are ready for open war with Isreal"

Really? Looks like your getting your ass handed to you Ahmed. Want to rethink that statement?

What damage has Hezbollah inflicted on Isreal? I think this sentence about sums it up:

Hezbollah militants used anti-tank missiles to destroy an Israeli tank and an armored bulldozer.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by ShabazKillaX

What I find funny is the statements from Hezbollah like "we are ready for open war with Isreal"

I found that statement funny as well. Here, I've fixed it for them:

"We are ready for open war with Israel, if by that you mean hiding amongst civilians and then parading their corpses past the press to show how innocent people are dieing."

[HEAVY-D]

Why are we even discussing this? It's not like we really give a sh*t about the middle east or anyplace else for that matter. All that matters is what's in it for us. If this little spat causes gas prices to go up then we need to fu*k them all up (Iraq, Iran, Israel, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon) until they act in our best interest. America first Biotch!!!

[MSP]

You're full of shit Heavy-D, you don't really feel that way.

[mistawiskas]

War is fought in the media. The old days of infantry, bombing, and hand to hand means nothing now.
I believe in constitutional rights and all, but the media isn't representing enough unbiased trueth to be trusted. The middle eastern enemies of this country , know how best to use our own freedoms against us. That is where most of their war is being waged. And they're winning in that respect. Just look at how they are honored to personally die. Doing so is no threat to them. The actual death means nothing, but just look at what one single death can do in the media.

[Goofus Maximus]

Having a war on terror is ridiculous. Terror is a crime, so we must wage a POLICE ACTION against terror!

On a seriouser note: the only sure way to fight an idea, is with another idea.

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by Goofus Maximus

On a seriouser note: the only sure way to fight an idea, is with another idea.

Very wise words!

[Goofus Maximus]

Originally Posted by mistawiskas

but the media isn't representing enough unbiased trueth to be trusted.

I don't know, in a situation like this, if there really is such a thing as "unbiased" truth. Emotions are too thick from all sides, and everyone thinks they are right and the other side is both wrong and evil.

[hafleystyles]

i think we're mainly trying to get in the back door of all these little countries and set up shop to hinder terrorism and to sell coca cola of course.

[ATIzed]

Originally Posted by hafleystyles

i think we're mainly trying to get in the back door of all these little countries and set up shop to hinder terrorism and to sell coca cola of course.

I'd rather them drinking Cokes than slitting throats.

[ivwshane]

Shortyly after the attacks of 9/11 many people and countries were with us and looked down upon those that perpetrated such attacks and support for extremists was almost non existant. However three years later the numbers are turning.

We are turning people/countries against us and uniting enemies. Does that not increase the likelyhood of terrorist attacks? How long do you continue to fight a war on terror with force before looking at other options?


And who here understands what we are fighting for and who we are fighting against and what are the motives of the terrorists?

Answer that and tell me how our current strategy could possibly work for fighting terrorism?

[ErrorS]

You can't fight terrorism, it's just not possible.. these people believe in a cause and they would fight with sticks and stones if they had to. Hell, they're willing to sacrifice their children for this cause, peopel honestly believe bombs are going to stop them?

and the Israelis just want an excuse to kill some people.. they know this isn't going to do anything, this isn't going to cause terrorism to die down. They have been fighting this stupid 'battle' for thousands of years, don't they understand yet? they can't win.

[mistawiskas]

It's not a matter of expecting to "win". It's a matter of sending the message:
"don't fuck with me!" If they hit you first, you hit them back and you make sure they stay down. That's been the ideology for thousands of years. It's going to take awareness and generations to even begin (if at all possible) to change that mindset. Wart on terror and conventional war is more of a mindfuck than bloodshed. You only spill blood to fuck with their heads.

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by mistawiskas

You only spill blood to fuck with their heads.

Unfortunately that doesn't stop wars.