[MSP]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico and four Central American nations condemned the U.S plan to build hundreds of miles of triple-layered fencing on its southern border, saying it would not stop illegal immigration.

And here's the funny part:

On the border with Arizona, bedraggled migrants who had been turned back by the border patrol said that more fences would not keep them from crossing but only make smugglers charge more money for the trip.

If the smugglers charge more money fewer people will be able to come! I simply don't understand these Latin American nation's reasoning here. The fence WILL cut down on illegals, and wouldn't be necessary if their countries' internal issues weren't spilling across our border in the first place.

[nidex]

Nidex's solution: Land mines.

[MovingTarget]

I love this shit....

The House plan sparked a wave of criticism from Latin American leaders, with Mexican President Vicente Fox comparing such a barrier to the Berlin Wall.

I think a better refference would have been the Great Wall of China....

"Building walls, constructing barriers on the border does not offer an efficient solution in a relationship of friends, neighbors and partners," Fox said in the border city of Tijuana.

Friends? Partners?...what kind of crack are they smoking now?

"We will go on defending the rights of our countrymen without rest or respite. With passion we will demand the full respect of their human rights."

"Human" rights aren't the issue but they keep bringing it up......

"I had to leave my three children, walk for three days in the desert, and now I'm here with more debts than ever," said Edith Martinez, a 40-year-old from Oaxaca who walked back over the border bridge to the Mexican town of Nogales. "Now I have to work in the United States to pay my debts from the trip."

And this our fault because?.........

[ivanolo]

Originally Posted by nidex

Nidex's solution: Land mines.

I wholeheartedly support this. Either you get here like me (legally), or you die, motherfuckers! Ha!

[ThatHideousStrength]

Do like the Russians and shoot anyone that crosses.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by MovingTarget

"Human" rights aren't the issue but they keep bringing it up......

Yep. Our government has spent a fortune trying to educate and otherwise keep them from going into the desert. It's not a human rights issue at all. They do not have the right to cross our border illegally, period.

[ivwshane]

Since mexico sees nothing wrong with their people invading the US I think the only option left is for the US to invade mexico. Let's see where fox stands after that.

[super_Chris]

I think the wall is stupid myself. Why do no European nations need a fence to keep out other Europeans? Because there isn't huge gap in classes between countrymen. The average Mexican is dirt poor(not all, because some are rich as all hell) and generally uneducated.

My solution, save the millions(billions?) that this wall will cost and spend it on making Mexico a better place to live. No, I don't mean throw our money at Mexico and hope it fixes it, I mean use the money to truly fix the broken system of government in Mexico. How? I don't know, but I bet someone does.


The wall will only create a bigger black market for trafficking humans, the demand for cheap Mexican labor and demand from Mexicans to get over here will not decrease because of some stupid fence. Hell, if a desert that kills people all year 'round doesn't stop them, a fence sure as hell wont.

[BrentN]

My solution, save the millions(billions?) that this wall will cost and spend it on making Mexico a better place to live. No, I don't mean throw our money at Mexico and hope it fixes it, I mean use the money to truly fix the broken system of government in Mexico. How? I don't know, but I bet someone does.

You do realize that would indefinitly cost like 100 times more than the wall that they suggest being built.

[NoseMaster]

Originally Posted by BrentN

You do realize that would indefinitly cost like 100 times more than the wall that they suggest being built.

Yeah and I'm sure the US would do a bangup job there, just like they're doing in Iraq right now

[MSP]

Just look at all of the other countries where we've tried to help improve their way of life. If the drive doesn't come from within they just spend the money and stay poor. Look at all of the aid money wasted on Africa for example.

[Eavanr]

I'll deal with this thread when I get home, but just for the immediate record, there's alot of problems with what has already been said.

People who say the reason there is immigration from latin america because of their internal problems should take a good look at political and economical history of US-Latin America relations. I would strongly reccomend reading up on some depedency theory (use wikipedia or whatever) to explain recent occurences

[MSP]

Yeah, yeah - the US has been meddling in Latin America as have many other world powers for centuries. In fact the Confederacy tried to take over the whole damn thing during the Civil War! Same thing with Africa - slavery followed by colonialism followed by the Cold War fucked them over. I know the history dude, so you can spare us the epistle.

[Nothing.]

The border issue is a hard issue to deal with. It's hard to come up with REAL good suggestions.
Now, come on, you can't really suggest killing them as they walk by. That's just inhumane.
I actually like the idea of trying to fix Mexico and trying to make it more stable for people to live in.
That would be hard to do, though and would cost a lot of money. Personally the money we spend to fix Mexico should be spent on America to fix us. We have a lot of shitty areas we need fixing too.

I don't like illegal immagrants as much as the next guy, but there isn't a whole lot we can do. The wall seems like the best idea and COULD bring some nice tourism maybe? If build well, and nice, like the great wall of china. I think they should use the illegal immagrants they find and make them build the wall. Nothing like free/cheap labor. Then, they can go back to the other side.

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by MSP

Just look at all of the other countries where we've tried to help improve their way of life. If the drive doesn't come from within they just spend the money and stay poor. Look at all of the aid money wasted on Africa for example.

That's my thought as well. The mexican government appears to not want to fix the reason why their citizens are leaving their country.

[ATIzed]

Oil for illegals. Cmon.

[eyezik]

fucking double post

[eyezik]

Trying to "fix" Mexico would be impossible (financially) for the US. Fuck that.

"When is the US going to stop being the worlds police?" is a more important issue IMO.

[mistawiskas]

You can't change people that don't want a change. IMO: Alot of the problems that third world countries face have , not only been exaserbated by US controls, but the motivation (or lack of motivation) of their
people. Societies motivated by religeous extreemism tend to be uneducated as a means of control over the population. Countries that don't seek to fit in, don't seek to embrace a changing world, get left behind. Most of the ignorance in this world is a result of a ill fated attempt at control. Education is the key. Try to tell that to the extreemist religeons of the niddle east and see how far you get. Governments of third world (including Mexico) countries would suffer if the population knew the real score and that frightens them. That's why the middle east and other regeons hate the USA. We're a real threat to the controls they have over their populations. The world is not going to change, it's only going to witness greater division between the forward thinkers and the ones who use ignorance as a means to
govern. If all peoples were forward thinkers, what would the world be like and what would mankind be capable of?

Again, this is all my opinion. My opinions are not facts. The following concerns the shit out of me: ( from an E-mail passed on to me)

We, as a nation, have been in the business of 'buying' our allies and influence for awhile now. This is some of the 'fruits' of our tax money generated funding for those purchases:
How they vote in the United Nations: Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:

Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time.
Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time.
Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time.
United Arab Emirates votes against the U. S 70% of the time.
Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.
Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the
Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.
Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.

U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:
Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time, against the United States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.
Jordan votes 71% against the United States and receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.
Pakistan votes 75% against the United States receives $6,721,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.
India votes 81% against the United States and receives $143,699,000 annually.
Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay for the taxes (and gasoline).
Pass this along to every taxpaying citizen you know. And send to your congressman, who should be disgraced but couldn't care less.

Disgusting, isn't it?



Personally, I want more for my money that we're getting. This goes along with what Eavanr was getting at when mentioning "dependancy theory", I believe. You know, Eavanr may not be liked much, but he does have a
habit of doing his homework, so I try not to throw out the oportunity to learn something because the delivery isn't as "pretty" as it could be.

[ThatHideousStrength]

Most of those countries are of islamic faith so its not really suprising..