[Tacdriver]

just imagine all the money that is being spent till this day in name of war if that much money was spend internally, i think we could have probably wiped out poverty from this Great Nation by now. And became a symbol that other country can probably follow.

The last numbers I saw were that we were at 6% unemployment. That's pretty damn good for a country that's in "Crisis." Could someone out there name a utopian society that we could learn from? Seriously, name one country out there that's government takes care of their people better than we do. I can't come up with one. I'm willing to learn.

[demonizeZ]

Originally Posted by Tacdriver

The last numbers I saw were that we were at 6% unemployment. That's pretty damn good for a country that's in "Crisis." Could someone out there name a utopian society that we could learn from? Seriously, name one country out there that's government takes care of their people better than we do. I can't come up with one. I'm willing to learn.

when news throw numbers like 6% unemployment its very deceiving. with 1000s of cut backs from all level of industries. Millions are unemployed, having jobs not the issue the quality of jobs is the prob. All the skilled level jobs are no longer in USA least not easily accessible. for example i use to remember when kids graduated collages with degree in IT or engineering they never had prob finding jobs at all within this country. But now i know kids who graduated and got degree in IT and Elec eng. cant find jobs with in our own country and force to do job that is not for them.

i dont really think government number are very credible because if you see there numbers for inflation i think you will just start ROFL. For most people salary raises are not keeping pace with the rising cost of living, people are using a greater percentage of their wages to buy a smaller amount of goods. any one with family can agree with that. Grocery that use to juts cost me around 90ish Dollar a week are way over 100.

going back to the point about iran. Now we running special ops in iran. if some other country did that to USA we be out there bitching and bitching. but if iran catches our spec ops guys and decide to do some thing about it we be like pointing fingers on iran that they started it. When will we learn to mind our own business and work to make our nation more prosperous and strong from inside.


our govt remind of me of a line from V for vendetta "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people".

[mistawiskas]

Unless, of coarse you happen to be one of that 6%. And this is during the time of year that employment is usually at the year's lowest. No other country has the same ability to destabilize the USA. Besides, they do not have to, we're doing a great job of doing it ourselves. It's not a whole lot of fun loosing every single gain you've made imn the last fifteen years almost overnight. especially when prices are rising so fast and we're warned they are going to get alot worse by year's end. we are destroying ourselves from within and there doesn't seem to be any government will to stop it. in the last 8 years, i've been devastated by two "bubbles" bursting. the dotcom and now the housing. I'm quickly loosing the urge to be a good citizen. I'm just an avarage Joe:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPch2k63uj4

[ThatHideousStrength]

The worst has yet to come.

[Chris]

I refuse to be drafted. Sorry USA, it's really just not worth it to me.

[WoodButcher]

Nice find wiskas.

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by Tacdriver

The last numbers I saw were that we were at 6% unemployment. That's pretty damn good for a country that's in "Crisis." Could someone out there name a utopian society that we could learn from? Seriously, name one country out there that's government takes care of their people better than we do. I can't come up with one. I'm willing to learn.

Since you seem to think unemployement equates to the quality of living hows this:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2129rank.html

As to your other point:

Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(notice the list of past top countries)

And for you tree lovers:
Environmental Performance Index: CountryScores

[NoPunIntended]

Not sure if anyone has seen this, I just read it today.

Magazine says Bush waging $400M covert war against Iran

Originally Posted by Daily News

Magazine says Bush waging $400M covert war against Iran

BY ADAM LISBERG
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF
Sunday, June 29th 2008, 11:17 PM
President Bush oversees a $400 million covert program to destabilize the ruling mullahs in Iran, a new report claims, but military leaders are pushing back against the White House's plans for a first strike against Iran.
Some of the money is being funneled to dissident groups and ethnic minorities, including one with possible Al Qaeda links and another on the State Department's terrorist list, reporter Seymour Hersh claims in the new issue of The New Yorker.
"United States Special Operations Forces have been conducting cross-border operations from southern Iraq, with presidential authorization, since last year," Hersh wrote.
"These have included seizing members of Al Quds, the commando arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and taking them to Iraq for interrogation, and the pursuit of 'high-value targets' in the President's war on terror, who may be captured or killed."
The White House and CIA declined to comment on the article, which cited anonymous sources in and outside the government.
Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, denied the account of cross-border operations. "I can tell you flatly that U.S. forces are not operating across the Iraqi border into Iran, in the south or anywhere else," Crocker told CNN's "Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer."
"U.S. forces are not operating across the Iran-Iraq border, no."
Hersh, though, told the show that an ambassador would not necessarily be informed of the secret operations.
"Sometimes it's better not to have the ambassador know," Hersh said. "And the other major thing is, we've sent in a special task force that operates out of Afghanistan into Iran."
Top Democrats in Congress signed off on the program - even though Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned Democratic senators last year about the risks of attacking Iran, Hersh wrote.
One senator told Hersh that Gates said, "We'll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America." A spokesman for Gates disputed that statement.
alisberg@nydailynews.com

[mistawiskas]

Mexico=3.7%(2007) unemployment, USA=4.6%(2007) unemployment.....anything wrong with that picture? And there are alot, lot more people unemployed this year. last year at this time I'd made 3 times what I've made thus far this year. I just got back from the grocery store (spending my truck payment on groceries) and filled a list that last december would have cost me75 bux, today, it was 105 dollars. Last december I filled my truck for 50 dollars, this month, that same tank costs 80 dollars. How bad do we want this shit to get before we concider the possibility that our quality of life is suffering?

[JustinL]

Originally Posted by demonizeZ

when news throw numbers like 6% unemployment its very deceiving. with 1000s of cut backs from all level of industries. Millions are unemployed, having jobs not the issue the quality of jobs is the prob. All the skilled level jobs are no longer in USA least not easily accessible. for example i use to remember when kids graduated collages with degree in IT or engineering they never had prob finding jobs at all within this country. But now i know kids who graduated and got degree in IT and Elec eng. cant find jobs with in our own country and force to do job that is not for them.

i dont really think government number are very credible because if you see there numbers for inflation i think you will just start ROFL. For most people salary raises are not keeping pace with the rising cost of living, people are using a greater percentage of their wages to buy a smaller amount of goods. any one with family can agree with that. Grocery that use to juts cost me around 90ish Dollar a week are way over 100.

Kind of funny... I'm an engineering major, I've heard a lot about the job openings for engineers. They employers are begging for more H-1B Visa's because they are not able to fill all of their openings with US college grads. People are NASA are always looking for college grads. I know of 3 people who just got jobs working at the Kennedy Space Center/Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. One of my good friends was asking me when I was graduating because his department was looking for 50 new engineers. I am working my ass off to finish up my degree. Getting my degree is a right of passage to a "quality" job IMO and if more people are not willing to work for a good job, then THEY are the problem, not the government.

[tex]

Originally Posted by JustinL

Kind of funny... I'm an engineering major, I've heard a lot about the job openings for engineers. They employers are begging for more H-1B Visa's because they are not able to fill all of their openings with US college grads. People are NASA are always looking for college grads. I know of 3 people who just got jobs working at the Kennedy Space Center/Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. One of my good friends was asking me when I was graduating because his department was looking for 50 new engineers. I am working my ass off to finish up my degree. Getting my degree is a right of passage to a "quality" job IMO and if more people are not willing to work for a good job, then THEY are the problem, not the government.

Yeah, I don't know wtf he is talking about. I was in EE at Texas Tech, and all the people I know there in engineering are getting offers and craploads of interviews. I have 3 clients that are mostly engineering, and all the guys say the market is booming. Same thing with IT - I am getting people from my network asking me about open positions all the time. Both of those markets are booming from my perception.

Oh, and I say no more quoting wikipedia in serious arguments (unless we can quote conservapedia with seriousness)

[JustinL]

Originally Posted by tex

Yeah, I don't know wtf he is talking about. I was in EE at Texas Tech, and all the people I know there in engineering are getting offers and craploads of interviews. I have 3 clients that are mostly engineering, and all the guys say the market is booming. Same thing with IT - I am getting people from my network asking me about open positions all the time. Both of those markets are booming from my perception.

Oh, and I say no more quoting wikipedia in serious arguments (unless we can quote conservapedia with seriousness)

Yea, I am pretty sure that 50% of Lockheed Martins engineers are retiring between 2004 and 2014.

[ThatHideousStrength]

Canada's quality of life has overcome America's.

Special Canada Day Report: How Canada stole the American Dream | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features

[Chris]

Originally Posted by ThatHideousStrength

Canada's quality of life has overcome America's.

Special Canada Day Report: How Canada stole the American Dream | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features

"To be an American is to be the best. Every American believes this. "

I stopped reading there, what a terrible fucking article.

I know for a fact many of my Canadian friends aren't having such a good time up there either.

[mistawiskas]

Engineering hasn't always had the demand that this day and age has. It's always been a fairly good career if a person was so inclined and has a bit of natural talent. I was headed that direction but a bad call and just one instance of unprotected sex changed all that for me. At 16 I was working my ass off to raise a family. When you take away all the people who have the aptitude, inteligence, lack of bad decisions and lack of motivation.....that leaves very, very few americans that even come close to qualifying for any form of engineering degree.

[Tacdriver]

Originally Posted by mistawiskas

Engineering hasn't always had the demand that this day and age has. It's always been a fairly good career if a person was so inclined and has a bit of natural talent. I was headed that direction but a bad call and just one instance of unprotected sex changed all that for me. At 16 I was working my ass off to raise a family. When you take away all the people who have the aptitude, inteligence, lack of bad decisions and lack of motivation.....that leaves very, very few americans that even come close to qualifying for any form of engineering degree.

I was finished with this thread but here we go. Of course we should be in Iran covertly. They are a 3rd world shit hole that's trying to build a nuclear weapons program. This and the fact that they're supplying the weapons to the insurgents we're fighting in Iraq are more than enough reason to justify this. At least we're making sure they have WMD's this time right "Bush lied people died" sayers. We should mind our own business? Does any one really want a radical country like Iran to have WMD's?

Sorry for quoting what I read in the media about the 6% unemployment. I read that not too long ago from two sources. The Wall Street Journal and CNN Financial I believe. I guess the numbers can only be quoted and then trusted from the media if they reflect Bush in a bad light.

Last but not least, If you made a bad decision in your life that's caused you to not have the time to further your education..........how is that the government's fault? We can't all be movie and rock stars either but does that mean that The U.S. has to make up for your lack of talent by ensuring you have a high paying job? God I hope that's not where some of you are coming from.

[jake]

Why do you think they are trying to build a nuke? Because the same people who told us Iraq had WMD are now saying Iran does?

washingtonpost.com

[Tacdriver]

Originally Posted by jake

Why do you think they are trying to build a nuke? Because the same people who told us Iraq had WMD are now saying Iran does?

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Well here's just one quick reason.

Russia is building Iran's first nuclear power plant and has resisted moves by the U.S. and its allies to impose stronger U.N. sanctions against Tehran.

http://=http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORL...ran/index.html

[demonizeZ]

Originally Posted by JustinL

Kind of funny... I'm an engineering major, I've heard a lot about the job openings for engineers. They employers are begging for more H-1B Visa's because they are not able to fill all of their openings with US college grads. People are NASA are always looking for college grads. I know of 3 people who just got jobs working at the Kennedy Space Center/Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. One of my good friends was asking me when I was graduating because his department was looking for 50 new engineers. I am working my ass off to finish up my degree. Getting my degree is a right of passage to a "quality" job IMO and if more people are not willing to work for a good job, then THEY are the problem, not the government.

You actually prove my point i am assuming you are not from USA. If they offer you H-1B visa as for people who don't know what that is here : (It allows U.S. employers to employ foreign guest workers skilled in specialty occupations only when qualified U.S. citizens or residents are not available). That was my point. I was strictly talking about kids from our own country. The company getting people from out side rather then using kids that are of same qualification who are from our own country. Please don't think i am bashing foreign workers. All i am saying kids from our own country should get priority before they look outside.

as for what Tex said. you are right where you stand. but you and i stand on very different levels of life. You have to consider that its not easy for some one with new family to move family to completely new place just because there is job opening. And lots of people are not well educated... with job cuts and soo many unemployed most of em just cant apply for those level of job you talking about. back in days people with no Collage degree were doing fine. The way things are they are not doing well now, and with family and 1000 other problems that comes with it its not easy to start collage education for them. In one of Tacdrive post he said some thing very important "If you made a bad decision in your life that's caused you to not have the time to further your education..........how is that the government's fault?" the answer is obvious its not govt fault. but it is govt fault when cost of life is soo high it costing arm and leg (figuratively speaking). That is GOVT fault to allow the economy to be soo bad that some people have to choose between there pride and meal.

[jake]

Nuclear power != nuclear weapons

Your link is broken btw. This one works.