[mistawiskas]

^^^completely right.
This is all just another political "tool" in the "politics as usual" handbook. We all know that it's a prime function of some people employed in all campaigns to dig up the dirt on the oponent, whether it be in opposing party or within your own party. I dislike this form of politicing. This is where the media comes in. They can blow shit out of proportion, or bury it rather quickly.

[wheezer]

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Do you have a link where obama said not to use his middle name?

Has obama himself gone out and said this is a racial issue otherwise it wouldn't have been brought up?

Can you show me where obama himself or someone from his campaign has been acting like sore losers (and not someone who is merely an obama supporter)?

Obama has condemned such rhetoric by has pastor but still supports him. I know you are used to the typical politician whom at the hint of any possible threat would immediately throw such a person under the bus and distance themselves all for the sake of getting votes but it's obvious here by obamas actions that he is not a typical politician. I have never seem a politician (at this level anyway) keep a campaign so clean (remember swift vote vets?) and it's these king of actions that tell me what sort of character we are dealing with.

But hey if you would feel a lot better if he totally disregarded someone he has known for 20 years for the sake of "looking good" then I guess you are all for politics as usual and don't believe or want change. And that's perfectly fine but I myself and tired of the same old shit and I don't like the direction America is headed and I'll continue to vote for someone who says they are for change, not because they are "good speakers" but because their past and current actions support their rhetoric.

I never said to dump him, I never said to completely separate himself....what I said is that he should have dealt with it head on and said:

"I have been a member of a church for many years that some may find controversial. I am a strong believer in God and I beleive that religion does have a place in ones life. However, do not assume that I agree with everything the leader of the church has to say, especially when it comes to race, or his personal political views when he expresses them from the pulpit from time to time. Please, do not judge me based on the words of another."

Did he do that? Nope....time and time again he claimed that he never heard anything like that when in church.....like the reverend Wright only did sermons like this after he made sure Obama was not in attendance......right.

The fact is this is damaging. Is it damaging beyond repair?...only time will tell, but in politics much like advertising and selling....which is what campaigning is, perceived perception is everything and if people "think" that is what Obama is about....then he has a long hard struggle ahead of him. I rarely find people intelligent enough to leave their emotions and first impressions at the door and deal with things on a fact by fact basis.


I don't like Obama based on his political ideas and agenda, and I base that on his past actions as a Senator and what he says while on the campaign trail in in debates not what this moron of a preacher spews from the pulpit.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by Juballharshaw

Does this make me a bad person because I went to a church, more than once where the pastor espoused those hateful beliefs? No.

If you hired the man to work closely with you, knowing that he had these radical, hateful views? Yes, guilt by association. It would be like Bush having someone from the Klan on his staff.

[Mr. Ali]

"I have been a member of a church for many years that some may find controversial. I am a strong believer in God and I beleive that religion does have a place in ones life. However, do not assume that I agree with everything the leader of the church has to say, especially when it comes to race, or his personal political views when he expresses them from the pulpit from time to time. Please, do not judge me based on the words of another."

wtf? watch his 37minute speech from yesterday that i posted. he basically said that.

EDIT: this is a good video i wanted to share:
"Why you should vote for Obama"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3GLyuVzIn8

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by MSP

Personally I wouldn't want ANYBODY who had sat in that church running our country.

Although it's ok if bush endorses AND gets advice from a spiritual leader who has said just as much hateful things, then its ok right?

But whatever, you're pretty frothing at the mouth at this point so there's no point in trying to reason with you.

No it is I who is trying to reason with you.

[MSP]

Bush has a pastor or adviser who has spewed hate towards the black community? I'd love to see it, post away!

And you may not think this has damaged his campaign but Obama does:

Obama: Wright flap has 'shaken me up' - CNN.com

[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by MSP

Bush has a pastor or adviser who has spewed hate towards the black community? I'd love to see it, post away!

And you may not think this has damaged his campaign but Obama does:

Obama: Wright flap has 'shaken me up' - CNN.com

I've never said that it hasn't hurt his campaign, I've said it's a non issue.

And you are right, bush's pastor has never said anything about blacks, just about america, homosexuals, and women but I guess as long as he hasn't said anything about blacks everything is ok.

[MSP]

Well apparently it is an issue, even Obama is realistic enough to know it is. Listen, I'm a moderate. A week ago I honestly wasn't sure which was I was going to go with this thing. It's not like I'm a hard core conservative railing on Obama. I voted for Clinton TWICE. I just find it incredibly disturbing who this man is surrounding himself with. If McCain were in the reverse role, with a close associate railing against the black community and damning our country, he'd be in hot water and you'd be posting about it. And you know what? I'd agree with you. Sure, McCain's pastor has said some things against Islam. But McCain didn't chose him to be a close adviser either, did he? There is a distinction there that you either don't see or refuse to see.

[ivwshane]

I wouldn't be damning mccain if he was in the same situation because it's still a non issue.

I said it was a non issue with regards to what mccains pastor said. I fail to see how either situation would make any difference in the decisions both candidates would make in the future.

Now if this was jesse jackson running for president or al sharpton then I'd be right there with you.

[Juballharshaw]

Originally Posted by MSP

Bush has a pastor or adviser who has spewed hate towards the black community? I'd love to see it, post away!

Bush and most republicans have long been associated with the Christian Coalition of America.

Of course they've long spoken out against homosexuals, the right to choose, lessening the separation between church and state, and exposed their desire to see Arabs and Jews go to war fulfilling the prophecy of the Second Coming.

Falwell began to detect just that in April 2002 when President Bush called on Israel to withdraw its tanks from Palestinian towns on the West Bank. So Falwell shot off a letter of protest to the White House, which was followed by a hundred thousand e-mails from Christian conservatives. Israel did not move its tanks. Mr. Bush did not ask again.

Zion's Christian Soldiers, Conservative Christian Says Founder Of Islam Set A Bad Example - CBS News

Has there been hatred towards blacks? Maybe, but nothing major. Has there been a huge anti-Islam movement to back the rebuilding of a Zionist controlled Holy Land? Absolutely.

Originally Posted by MSP

If you hired the man to work closely with you, knowing that he had these radical, hateful views? Yes, guilt by association. It would be like Bush having someone from the Klan on his staff.

Obama African American Religious Leadership Committee - Dec. 4, 2007

He wasn't hired as part of his campaign. He asked him to serve on the African American Religious Leadership Committee which was a political machine set up to gather support from:

thousands of Black clergy and religious leaders across America, leaders who have come to recognize that Obama represents change they can believe in.

Originally Posted by ivwshane

I wouldn't be damning mccain if he was in the same situation because it's still a non issue.

I said it was a non issue with regards to what mccains pastor said. I fail to see how either situation would make any difference in the decisions both candidates would make in the future.

Now if this was jesse jackson running for president or al sharpton then I'd be right their with you.

This pretty much sums up my point. Did he go to a church where the pastor said some retarded things? Absolutely, but it doesn't make him any less capable as a leader, especially following "W".

[MSP]

Originally Posted by Juballharshaw

He wasn't hired as part of his campaign. He asked him to serve on the African American Religious Leadership Committee which was a political machine set up to gather support from:

OK, then imagine McCain asking David Duke (former Klan grand wizard) to be part of the "White American Religious Leadership Committee" to gather support from... He'd be doomed.

And I don't particularly like the wacko religious folks, right or left.

[WoodButcher]

Originally Posted by MSP

And I don't particularly like the wacko religious folks, right or left.

Me neither but they're fun to watch and provoke!

[SoulAssassin]

Originally Posted by ivwshane

I wouldn't be damning mccain if he was in the same situation because it's still a non issue.

I said it was a non issue with regards to what mccains pastor said. I fail to see how either situation would make any difference in the decisions both candidates would make in the future.

Now if this was jesse jackson running for president or al sharpton then I'd be right their with you.

I'll preface this with this: I don't like any of the major candidates.

Obama could've easily walked away from that parish but yet he chose to stay there for twenty years (or thereabouts) and even let him baptize his kids and marry he and his wife...I can see dumb statements from your friends/acquaintances but this is a bit much. Hell I have a few *really* dumb friends but if they were that outlandish I sure as hell wouldn't be associated with them in any way, shape or form.

Same with McCain but then again I don't know how long he's been with his pastor after those insane remarks about the crusade against Islam.

[HEAVY-D]

I'm sure if Obama becomes president he'll single handedly convert the entire US government into anti-white surrogates who will pass laws against White people like taking their land and money and giving it to Black people or something.

[Mr. Ali]

Even Mike Huckabee, like McCain things this whole paster thing is fucking ridiculous:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fjxU

You know when the democratic party is full of spineless cowards when the only two major political figures to defend Obama on this issue have been McCain and Huckabee.

EDIT: This is pretty funny:
Letterman Presents "Barack Obama 'Uh' Count" - Media on The Huffington Post

[mistawiskas]

Originally Posted by HEAVY-D

I'm sure if Obama becomes president he'll single handedly convert the entire US government into anti-white surrogates who will pass laws against White people like taking their land and money and giving it to Black people or something.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by HEAVY-D

I'm sure if Obama becomes president he'll single handedly convert the entire US government into anti-white surrogates who will pass laws against White people like taking their land and money and giving it to Black people or something.

Of course he's not going doing anything as outrageous or overt as that. Let me spin it around on you - if McCain had a David Duke or other such racist amongst his advisers, would you expect him to make any similar overt actions as you sarcastically suggested? No, probably not. Still, would you want him sitting in the Whitehouse with the president's ear? No, probably not. That's where I am. I don't want such a person with that sort of access to power, and I don't want the people I vote for associating with people such as Wright.

[HEAVY-D]

-sigh-
Goodbye cruel world.

[SoulAssassin]

Originally Posted by HEAVY-D

-sigh-
Goodbye cruel world.

Hello world!




Well, that's the best coding project I ever did.

[jman2439]

Originally Posted by Juballharshaw

I went to a Lutheran church for a couple years where one of the pastors would go off on tangents and decry the other Lutheran affiliations as being Godless blasphemers for accepting women into their clergy and for accepting homosexuals as being human (though not the act of homosexuality).

Does this make me a bad person because I went to a church, more than once where the pastor espoused those hateful beliefs? No.

But would you have hired him to be your spiritual advisor for your presidential campaign? And why did you stop going after 2 years?