[travisty08]

an interesting point of view.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9071731896689197790

[msgwtco]

I disagree with his views entirely. His idea that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization is rediculous. Most of the world views hezbollah as a terrorist organization. I think his anti Israel anti war opinions make his opinions very one sided too.

[tweakmonkey]

I don't really follow this stuff much, but he made a good point:
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." or something similar to that

He claims most of the world doesn't think they are terrorists...

Her questions are clearly one-sided in favor of her political views (as to be expected, it's TV). It makes me really wonder what's going on over there, but I'd never trust American or British news on this sort of thing.

[mistawiskas]

I don't trust any news on anything anymore. Seems unbiased reporting died long ago in favor of a political and/or commercial agendas.

[HEAVY-D]

I agree with much of what he says. Just like the war in Iraq I get the feeling we are being lied to or given an opinion we're supposed to follow without question.

You can't help noticing the Anti-Arab/Persian/Muslim sentiment in the American Empire. An Israeli/Jewish life is worth more than an Arab/Muslim life.

I'm glad he's speaking out (someone other than a Muslim and/or a person of color).

[Lazaredz]

Originally Posted by Dan-T3D

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." or something similar to that

I agree with that but for one caveat: Freedom fighters target a government. Be it the government installations, leaders, or troops. Yes some civilians might die but the TARGET was the government itself. Terrorists target civilians on PURPOSE and without regret.

Example: Targeting a military check point. The target is the troops and the government they represent. Yes some civilians might get killed but the TARGET was the government/military.

Example: Walking into a crowded marketplace and blowing it up. The target was whomever was around with a HIGH probability that it would not actually strike the government/military.

Most groups go back and forth across this line including rebels in some South American countries and the IRA. I tend to judge them on the majority of their strikes. Everyone (including the USA) makes "bad calls" sometimes and strikes an inappropriate target. If this is the minority of their strikes and their is some remorse/investigation involved, I tend to give them the benefit of "war is hell". If they have the majority of their strikes aimed at civilian type targets and express no remorse (or even glee about it) well then their terrorists.

Not sure if I explained that well, but I hope the idea came across.

[super_Chris]

Using terrorist tactics isn't necessarily a bad thing. Their(hezbolah) end goal is to either eliminate Israel or at least kick them back. They are far, far under armed and undermanned to fight the Israelis on a level battlefield, they have no choice but to fight in this manner.

Think back, about 20-30 years ago. Afghanistan used similar tactics against the Soviets which were invading, and used them successfully. The only difference was that the Afghani's couldn't fire rockets all the way into Soviet territory.

Think back 60-65 years ago. Japan had a strangle hold on the Pacific, America did something which Hezbollah could never do, we killed a shitload of civilians through traditional air raids and the nuclear ones.


On another note, lazareds, Hezbolah has been attacking actual Israeli troops. I saw it on the news the other day, they hit a checkpoint and disabled a tank if I saw correctly.

Now, if you look back even further 200-225 years ago. We the Americans used tactics that almost a perfect match with those of Hezbolah. We did the old, hit and run. Killing those British boys any chance we got.

[ThatHideousStrength]

Originally Posted by super_Chris

Using terrorist tactics isn't necessarily a bad thing. Their(hezbolah) end goal is to either eliminate Israel or at least kick them back. They are far, far under armed and undermanned to fight the Israelis on a level battlefield, they have no choice but to fight in this manner.

Think back, about 20-30 years ago. Afghanistan used similar tactics against the Soviets which were invading, and used them successfully. The only difference was that the Afghani's couldn't fire rockets all the way into Soviet territory.

Think back 60-65 years ago. Japan had a strangle hold on the Pacific, America did something which Hezbollah could never do, we killed a shitload of civilians through traditional air raids and the nuclear ones.


On another note, lazareds, Hezbolah has been attacking actual Israeli troops. I saw it on the news the other day, they hit a checkpoint and disabled a tank if I saw correctly.

Now, if you look back even further 200-225 years ago. We the Americans used tactics that almost a perfect match with those of Hezbolah. We did the old, hit and run. Killing those British boys any chance we got.

I think Hannibal did the same.

[WoodButcher]

I don't follow the politics of the world as many do. What I hear consistently hear is the argument over "rules of engagement". The dominant power is the one to write these rules. I would not hesitate to hit below the belt if my life depended on it, would you?

I can in no way rationalize or justify the attacks on civilians. Their beliefs seem to me beyond bizarre. Are they truly afraid of women and children simply because the children might one day grow to be an adult with different opinions? Because the women might have more babies with opinions?

Hitler revisited.

[ThatHideousStrength]

One of the many reasons why I don't like the Koran.

[HEAVY-D]

Remember what started this last clash, two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah then Israel started to bomb Lebanon (which didn't make sense to me because by bombing Lebanon you could have killed the people you are supposed to be trying to save) then Hezbollah returned fire with rockets.

[Lazaredz]

Originally Posted by super_Chris

Using terrorist tactics isn't necessarily a bad thing. Their(hezbolah) end goal is to either eliminate Israel or at least kick them back. They are far, far under armed and undermanned to fight the Israelis on a level battlefield, they have no choice but to fight in this manner.

True, nothing wrong with hit and run or sneak attacks on MILITARY TARGETS. When you bomb a wedding or club ..... not so cool.

Think back, about 20-30 years ago. Afghanistan used similar tactics against the Soviets which were invading, and used them successfully. The only difference was that the Afghani's couldn't fire rockets all the way into Soviet territory.

Again, military targets.

Think back 60-65 years ago. Japan had a strangle hold on the Pacific, America did something which Hezbollah could never do, we killed a shitload of civilians through traditional air raids and the nuclear ones.

True. Wasn't a hell of alot of choice back then. Nobody really had the reach nor ability to precision target military targets. War is hell but the Germans and Japanese started the indiscriminate targeting.

On another note, lazareds, Hezbolah has been attacking actual Israeli troops. I saw it on the news the other day, they hit a checkpoint and disabled a tank if I saw correctly.

Yes the do occasionally hit military targets and I don't have an issue with that in itself. Its the targeting of civilians/civilian targets that more defines them.

Now, if you look back even further 200-225 years ago. We the Americans used tactics that almost a perfect match with those of Hezbolah. We did the old, hit and run. Killing those British boys any chance we got.

Not really. The colonists hit MILITARY targets. I don't recall any incidents of blowing up British weddings or diners.

[ThatHideousStrength]

Hezbollah has been shooting rockets at civilians as well. There were many accounts of rockets hitting random places that his civialians.

[HEAVY-D]

Galloway seems to be a colourful character!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway

[ATIzed]

Originally Posted by HEAVY-D

I agree with much of what he says. Just like the war in Iraq I get the feeling we are being lied to or given an opinion we're supposed to follow without question.

You can't help noticing the Anti-Arab/Persian/Muslim sentiment in the American Empire. An Israeli/Jewish life is worth more than an Arab/Muslim life.

I'm glad he's speaking out (someone other than a Muslim and/or a person of color).

There are no mosques or Muslims being blown up in the "American Empire" due to anger. Though recently that one white guy went into the Seattle Muslim Center and shot those six Muslim women. Oh wait that was a self- proclaimed American Muslim who went into a Jewish center and shot six Jewish women and killed one. Oh well there was that one time when the white student rented an SUV and ran into a crowd of Muslims at an American university due to his anger at Muslims. Oh wait that was a Muslim who rented the SUV and drove into the crowd of people.

Hezblah has a charter wrapped around Israeli annihilation, and no doubt US annihilation, and western annihilation, but it is them who should be annihilated so everyone in the 21st century, not the 7th, can get on with their lives and actually advance the human race instead of pulling it into 1000 years of darkness. I'm just glad the first Hitler arose when he did and was defeated by the old US and allies cuz with the weakness of the US, UK, etc. today it'd be a cakewalk. Unfortunately, the next Hitler, the one in Iran has arisen and will be appeased of course, until war becomes unavoidable.

[mistawiskas]

Well written ATIzed. Interesting times we live in, for sure.

[HEAVY-D]

ATIzed your point is well taken your point of view should also be heard. Fortunately I don't have all the answers but at least I'm open to suggestions besides kill them all.

[Eps]

Originally Posted by Wood Butcher

I can in no way rationalize or justify the attacks on civilians. Their beliefs seem to me beyond bizarre. Are they truly afraid of women and children simply because the children might one day grow to be an adult with different opinions? Because the women might have more babies with opinions?

Hitler revisited.

Lets role play. I'll be the terrorist.

I'm part of an organization that has members in the range of 2,000. The government I'm trying to displace has 100,000. Attacking military outposts and checkpoints might result in a few deaths, but in the numbers game I'm not winning. There is no manner in which I can hope to fight an establishment of that magnitude. Or is there? What if I instead convince several of my followers to kill themselves, while at the same time blowing up lots of civilians in a crowded marketplace. If I can get at least one person every couple of weeks to do this, it will put fear into the population. People will be less likely to gather for fear of death. This potentially could destablize the economy.

Here's where social engineering comes into play. Everyone will be angry and need to direct those feelings at a target. Some will see the obvious truth that it is my organization that is the root of the problems (and the government will be working hard to make sure you come to that realization). But if I can spread my message around that I am fighting against the injustices of the establishment, there may be others who are down on their luck (because of my actions) who will have looked to the government for help, found none, and decide that I might be a better choice. Now my numbers are increasing. And with numbers comes resources. Access to materials that can be made into weapons. Access to smarts, the more people I can connect to, the more my intelligence of goverment activities and strategies I can gather.

/roleplaying

Now, theres a lot more to it in real life. But, if I were driven to the point of needing to topple a government that most would say was impossible, thats what I would do. Remember, no goverment is perfect. Over in the middle east that is magnified many times due to religion playing a large part in law. For many people, their religion is the source of their morals. All in all its a bad stew. There may very well be damned good reasons why these people are driven to do what they do. For them, the end justifys the means. OTH, they could just be asshats.

[HEAVY-D]

Another thought...The American Empire has decided it knows what's best for the world, to spread Democracy by force. Naturally some may be opposed to this and decide to resist this invasion. We are "The Great Satan" and they are "The Axis of Evil" and each promises to destroy the other.

[mistawiskas]

Good points Eps and HD. I believe they're both true.