[ivwshane]

Originally Posted by Cr@cKpiPe tE@sEr noOb!

oh well, 2nd post of 2006!!!!

Maybe in your time zone

[Tacdriver]

1. No you can't smack me just because you dissagree with me.

2. I'm the only one that heard in the news time and time again that Katrina was Bush's fault? Actually blaming Bush for Mother Nature! Not the aftermath or people not getting relocated in time but, the actual hurricane itself was somehow brewed up by Bush!!!! I imagined all of that? FEMA was slightly at fault but not to extent that the dems are pushing for. IMHO the local gumment and infrastructure is primarily to blame.

3. Fiddy the gist of my original post was to start a dialogue. I was not out to blame anyone. I just found it scarily interesting. Yes it's one sided but, it's all true. You don't have to like it.

[ivwshane]

2. I'm the only one that heard in the news time and time again that Katrina was Bush's fault? Actually blaming Bush for Mother Nature! Not the aftermath or people not getting relocated in time but, the actual hurricane itself was somehow brewed up by Bush!!!! I imagined all of that? FEMA was slightly at fault but not to extent that the dems are pushing for. IMHO the local gumment and infrastructure is primarily to blame.

Yes and the same kind of people that make ridiculous accusations like that are the same kind of people that come up with lists like the one you posted.

It's doesn't matter who said it or what side said it, it's all garbage.

[Tacdriver]

But my list is factual, not emotional or ridiculous. I just find the whole thing ironic because if the roles were reversed, that list would be all over the news. You won't admit that?

[ivwshane]

No, I don't think any news channel would cover that. I think that's way too radical for them to cover. I'll say that the media does have a bias for the right (except fox who is biased towards the left) but that's why they are garbage. You used to be able to watch the news and form your own opinion, now you have to watch editorial news and try and research the bs yourself. I personally think they should not be allowed to call themselves news shows, it's false advertisement.

The list may be factual but it's out of context.

[Tacdriver]

Uhhm you got the whole mainstream news and Fox idea mixed up. Fox is slanted right and the rest of the ENTIRE television media is way left. Also, the fact that the list is factual makes it completely in context.

[ivwshane]

Sorry, you get what I'm saying though.

Statistics are also factual but they can still be misconstrued.

[Wedge_]

Originally Posted by Tacdriver

2. I'm the only one that heard in the news time and time again that Katrina was Bush's fault? Actually blaming Bush for Mother Nature! Not the aftermath or people not getting relocated in time but, the actual hurricane itself was somehow brewed up by Bush!!!! I imagined all of that? FEMA was slightly at fault but not to extent that the dems are pushing for. IMHO the local gumment and infrastructure is primarily to blame.

And you were actually surprised that people like to blame things on the guy in charge? This is business as usual in politics.

As for the whole blame issue, that reminds me of the recent South Park epsiode which parodied the whole affair:
But somebody's gonna help the people off their rooftops, right?
That's not important right now son, what's important is figuring out whose fault this is.

[trancosrt]

This reminds me of the coffecup with a chart relating the dissapeareance of pirates and the growth of pollution or something like that.

Listing facts doesn't means the analisys drawn is correct. It only means that a wrong analisys was made from factual information.
That list to me doesn't mean squat about which party is better but it rather talks about each state's political leadership (and the country's BTW) and how we were able to learn from our mistakes. Nobody can't blame anybody for the hurricanes, but blame can be put in the lack of preparation, and certainly putting a budy with no prior experience as the head FEMA (that's a fact as far as I know) certainly doesn't talk well about about the leadership... Which happens to be republican.

[Wedge_]

Originally Posted by trancosrt

This reminds me of the coffecup with a chart relating the dissapeareance of pirates and the growth of pollution or something like that.

Are you referring to the holy teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[ivwshane]

lol

This is exactly what I'm talking about.


Both items are true but that doesn't mean they are related.

[Scooby]

blind bias.

These arnt even comparable. And its stupid to make these kinds of statements after 2 events.


Texas has more whites.
Louisiana has more blacks.

Texas took the natural disaster in stride.
Louisiana complained about the disaster for months.

Texas Had Minamal Looting
Niggas were tearing shit up in Louisiana.

Now, who are you gonna discriminate against first next time you're walkign down the street? Whites, or those cry baby blacks?

Wow, hey, my list is factual too, just with different variables.

Rita and Katrina were 100% different situations, plus Rita was after katrina thus it's kind of in Texas's best interest to prep themselves better for a disaster that was less disasterous.


Moot point moot point OMIGOSH moot point!

[Tacdriver]

Well I see it's now obvious that some of you.......SOME just don't like the truth.

[ThatHideousStrength]

Originally Posted by ivwshane

lol

This is exactly what I'm talking about.


Both items are true but that doesn't mean they are related.

haha thats fucking awesome.

[ninefivezero]

You post this, then in every one of your replies you say the same thing, these are all 100% perfect fact and analysis, and that all of us just are blind to the truth. Ok...

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by Tacdriver

Well I see it's now obvious that some of you.......SOME just don't like the truth.

and you just can't realize that after seeing what happened in Katrina, the other states began to prepare. it would be irresponsible not to after something like that happened and how much of an embarassment it was. maybe texas did so well because they were worried that they may look as bad as them coloreds in looeeseeanna.

[ivwshane]

I don't know what's sadder, the fact that this list has been posted on every right winged website and tac believes so heavily in it or the comments people posted after reading the list on said websites.

America is a lot dumber than I thought.

Take this line for example:

19. Texas: Fuel deliveries can't keep up with demand, some run out of gas on highway; need help from fuel tankers

before storm arrives.
Louisiana: Motorists wait till storm hits and electrical power fails. Cars run out of gas at gas stations that can't

pump gas. Gas in underground tanks mixes with flood waters.

Motorists wait till storm hits? They were told to evactuate 20 hours before the storm would hit, which is way to short of a time to have an evacuation of that magnitude (the last migration of that magnitude was the dust bowls of the 1930s). That's not the people of New Orleans fault that's the mayor of new orleans fault.

Lets not also forget the fact that while rita was a cat 5 hurricane it's damage was not as severe as katrina (*1) nor did it have a weak levy system like new orleans had (which can be directly attributed to budgets cuts by president bush) (*2).



*1

The effects of Hurricane Rita were not nearly as severe as expected. The storm surge feared in Galveston did not materialize, as the city was well to the west of the storm's center; the strong winds actually flattened the surge, which was only seven feet (2 m), and the seawall was easily able to handle it. The 5 inches (130 mm) of rain expected to fall overnight in New Orleans also did not happen, and the pressure on the levee system was eased. However, local storm surges of 15 to 20 feet (4.5-6.1 m) in southwestern Louisiana were reported, and in from coastal parishes, damage was extensive. Cameron Parish was heavily damaged, with the communities of Holly Beach, Hackberry and Cameron being essentially destroyed. [5] Calcasieu Parish, with the communities of Lake Charles, Sulphur, Westlake and Vinton also suffered heavy damage.

In total, it is estimated that well over 2 million customers were without electricity. [6] Total damage is estimated $9.4 billion, which makes Rita the ninth costliest storm in US history. (compared to katrian with an estimated cost of $75 billion)

Source wikipedia (I know not the best place but it will do)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_rita


*2

Bush Cut Funding

Blumenthal's much-quoted article in salon.com carried the headline: "No one can say they didn't see it coming." And it said the Bush administration cut flood-control funding "to pay for the Iraq war."

(quote)He continues:

Blumenthal: With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico . But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.

…By 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year…forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze.
(end of quote)

We can confirm that funding was cut. The project most closely associated with preventing flooding in New Orleans was the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Hurricane Protection Project, which was “designed to protect residents between Lake Pontchartrain and the Missisippi River levee from surges in Lake Pontchartrain,” according to a fact sheet from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. (The fact sheet is dated May 23, long before Katrina). The multi-decade project involved building new levees, enlarging existing levees, and updating other protections like floodwalls. It was scheduled to be completed in 2015.

Over at least the past several budget cycles, the Corps has received substantially less money than it requested for the Lake Pontchartrain project, even though Congress restored much of the money the President cut from the amount the Corps requested.

In fiscal year 2004, the Corps requested $11 million for the project. The President’s budget allocated $3 million, and Congress furnished $5.5 million. Similarly, in fiscal 2005 the Corps requested $22.5 million, which the President cut to $3.9 million in his budget. Congress increased that to $5.5 million. “This was insufficient to fund new construction contracts,” according to a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ project fact sheet. The Corps reported that “seven new contracts are being delayed due to lack funds” [sic].

The President proposed $3 million for the project in the budget for fiscal 2006, which begins Oct. 1. “This will be insufficient to fund new construction projects,” the fact sheet stated. It says the Corps “could spend $20 million if funds were provided.” The Corps of Engineers goes on to say:

Army Corps of Engineers, May 23: In Orleans Parish, two major pump stations are threatened by hurricane storm surges. Major contracts need to be awarded to provide fronting protection for them. Also, several levees have settled and need to be raised to provide the design protection. The current funding shortfalls in fiscal year 2005 and fiscal year 2006 will prevent the Corps from addressing these pressing needs.

The Corps has seen cutbacks beyond those affecting just the Lake Pontchartrain project. The Corps oversees SELA, or the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control project, which Congress authorized after six people died from flooding in May 1995. The Times-Picayune newspaper of New Orleans reported that, overall, the Corps had spent $430 million on flood control and hurricane prevention, with local governments offering more than $50 million toward the project. Nonetheless, "at least $250 million in crucial projects remained," the newspaper said.

In the past five years, the amount of money spent on all Corps construction projects in the New Orleans district has declined by 44 percent, according to the New Orleans CityBusiness newspaper, from $147 million in 2001 to $82 million in the current fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30.

Source: factcheck.org
http://factcheck.org/article344.html

[MSP]

Originally Posted by Wedge_

Are you referring to the holy teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Ryanism worhips Jah, and his "holy noodle", aka the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All hail his noodleness!

[Undertaker989]

there is some major distortion going on in that article.

1. Common sense dictates that you leave during a severe storm. I, as well as everyone I know, evacuated in advance and did not run out of gas at all. My life was never in danger. This is common sense....poorer people will allways look for someone else to wipe their ass, and therefore don't budget their money during hurricane season in case they need to evacuate.

2. The fucking Mayor didn't goto Dallas...

3. The Texas evacuation was a nightmare. My relatives in texas were stuck in gridlock for 12 hours with people running out of gas left and right....IMO, my state did the evacuations better given our highway system sucks, and that is the federal governments responsibility (they even blackmaled our state in the past over it as well).

4. There were gangs that came to New Orleans SPECIFICALLY for the storm. They came TO LOOT AND CAUSE HAVOC. Our police were OUTNUMBERED IN A BAD WAY. This story was never told, and will problably never hit the mainstream, however, these gangs were shot and the bodies of looters were dumped into the river and clamied otherwise. I am talking about special forces with nightvision camping out at looting hotpoints, sniping looters. This was witnessed by people my family knows who stayed back.

basically, to compare the looting situation in both storms is totally erronous.

Again...the article is skewed, but, I will say that if you look at both storms, you will see the problem that some communities of people cause. Thats all I'm going to say..I don't want to sound like a racist ass...my initial anger over the storm has soothed at this point.

[HEAVY-D]

One thing that list fails to mention is Texas learned from the mistakes Louisiana and the Federal government made. As far as the Republican and Democrat stuff goes it's just more us vs them= we are better, smarter, richer, etc. than them mental masturbation.

[Undertaker989]

One thing that list fails to mention is Texas learned from the mistakes Louisiana and the Federal government made.

this is damn true. The article purposely forgets to mention that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT was SUPER CAREFULL not to draw any more negative attention during the remainder of the hurricane season this past year. So again, to compare any type of Government action in both storms is erronous.

this article is not a factual creed, it is spin.